How I Became...

Kelly Yefet (00:32.421)
Thank you so much for joining me today on the How I Became podcast. I am so excited to chat with you, learn more about your story and be able to get your story out there. Megan is the CEO and co-founder of ShiftCollab, Canada's largest online mental health practice that prides itself on being female and clinician-owned. Megan, you are an innovator in the mental health space and a winner of the 2023 Top 100 Most Powerful Women in the Women Executive Network.

With over 13 years of experience as a registered social worker and psychotherapist, Megan has leveraged her experience to address a critical gap in the mental health sector, creating a platform that is clinician first and committed to providing accessible, relatable, and ethical mental health care. You're not just a business leader, you're also a vocal advocate who has co-created several high.

profile mental health educational programs reaching over half a million people worldwide, which is just incredible. And your work as a speaker advisor, it's made significant impact on the Canadian mental health and startup communities. So I'm just blown away and I'm really excited to hear a little bit of your story, how you got to where you are and what inspired you to be such an advocate in the mental health space. I feel like it used to be

a very hush-hush topic and now everyone is quite maybe becoming more and more open about mental health struggles or what they're going through. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey and what got you into the space.

Megan Rafuse (02:10.454)
Thank you for that lovely introduction. It always kind of drives a little bit of imposter syndrome at the beginning. I'm like, oh, OK, who is that person? But honestly, as a founder, I always say, I'm just human too. I just took a few risks. Thankfully, many of them paid off. And thankfully, many of those risks didn't pay off, which helped me to get to where I am today.

And so, you know, my journey with mental health overall really started when I was a teenager. I was in about grade nine. I found out my mom had cancer. And going through that journey in a small town where everyone knows you, everyone is related to you, and you're a teenager in high school is really tough. And at the time,

I didn't really know what I needed. I knew that I was struggling a bit. I knew that, you know, it was really tough being the girl whose mom had cancer. I was trying to like avoid making other people feel awkward. And when I was in grade 10, she actually died from cancer. And so at that time, you know, I didn't know what I needed, but I knew that I needed support. And I knew that the supports offered to me weren't.

really what I needed. I didn't feel like they were relatable. I didn't feel like I was really understood or heard. There wasn't a lot of conversation around grief and loss. There was no TikTok. There was no Instagram. And so I honestly felt kind of lonely. And while you know hindsight gives me that perspective into likely why I became a therapist and social worker.

Kelly Yefet (03:47.805)
Great.

Megan Rafuse (04:00.938)
At the time, I was like, I just got to get out of my small town. My parents weren't entrepreneurs. I was like, okay, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to be a psychologist. I moved away. I studied psychology, got into social work and realized this is a role that I love. I love working with people. I've always had an interest in just sharing life's journey with other people. It's so cool.

to have the privilege for someone to share their story, trust you on the path with them, recognizing they're the expert in their own life journey. I'm gonna give them some tools. I've learned some tools along the way. And it's really up to them to decide what they do with those tools, but I will challenge them and champion them and support them on the path. And so I think basically out of recognizing what I needed and not getting that kind of helped me to shape

my career in the mental health space to be able to say, well, if this isn't available, can I create it? And if I create it, what would that look like? And would people be interested in getting support with the things I have to offer? And so that's kind of how it started. Again, if you would have asked me at 16, like, would I be running a mental health company? I would have been like, ah, probably not. No. But now looking back, you

Kelly Yefet (05:24.163)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (05:28.826)
losing my mom at such a young age is really what shaped me into who I am today and into what I really value in my own life, both as a founder and as a mom and a spouse and a friend and all of those roles. And so, you know, I think what we go through doesn't necessarily always have to hold us back, can shape where we're going.

Kelly Yefet (05:53.589)
really sorry that you lost your mom. I imagine even if it's years ago, it doesn't stop being really difficult. So I'm sorry, but thank you for sharing. It sounds like in the beginning, when you were going through that, you were trying to avoid making other people feel uncomfortable, as you said, or tiptoeing around it, maybe not wanting that to be your full identity. Now starting a company with that story kind of at the focal point of it.

Do you find like, I don't know, it's kind of like a beauty and that you try to like move away from that being your identity into it blossoming into a really amazing company that's changing and hopefully making other people not feel lonely at the time. Like, did you toy with that a little bit when you were navigating this, you know, your career decisions?

Megan Rafuse (06:45.518)
Totally. And so, you know, the irony is there where I was trying to run away from being the girl whose mom died. And here I am now on a podcast, the first question you asked me, I'm like, oh, yeah, my mom died and that shaped who I am. And you know, I think my ability to talk so openly about it has come from embracing that as part of my identity. And it has come from being able to...

Kelly Yefet (06:52.881)
Yeah.

Kelly Yefet (06:58.183)
Right.

Kelly Yefet (07:10.467)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Rafuse (07:14.186)
be a part of communities, being in the mental health space, working with my team of therapists who work for my company, and just seeing overall the change in how we as a society talk about mental illness, mental wellness, and mental health struggles. And so, I am able and willing to talk about it in this way because one, I've had some really great therapists over the years.

Two, I've had to deal with how I carry my own grief because as a clinician, I can't be carrying my grief story into my work with my clients in a way that could cause them harm. I have to be mindful of what triggers me and mindful of how it shows up. But overall, I think for those of us who maybe lost a parent or those of us who are going through other mental health struggles,

Sometimes it's really nice to know we're not alone and the other person kind of gets what we're going through. And so it's been a long time learning to embrace this part of me, but I often think, you know, I was dealt a really hard hand. It's obviously so was my mom. And so it's really tough to be like, what do I do with that? I can choose to be bitter and angry and hold it.

Kelly Yefet (08:10.907)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (08:37.254)
or I can choose to use it as a way where I can have impact in the world. And so admittedly, initially I started my career in hospice and I worked with people who were dying at home. Admittedly, that probably wasn't the right work for me. It was a little bit too close, but that work set me up as a clinician to be empathetic, to understand what end of life looks like, to understand...

you know, the love that people share and the support we need and the boundaries we have to set. And it really helped me understand what it means to be human in a complex world. And I think I got my courage to share my story through my work in hospice. And then going into private practice, working with like ambitious professionals, we all hold stories too, but yet there was often this sense of, well, I can't show up as my full self.

because my friends are gonna judge me, or I won't get that promotion, or I'm not that bad, so why should I make this a big deal? And here I was sitting across from my clients as a young therapist being like, I get it, I feel it too. Here I am sitting across from you being like, okay, I need you to think I have all my stuff together. I need you to think, yeah, I need you to think that I know what I'm doing. I wanna look mature as a therapist, and I've got you.

Kelly Yefet (09:52.949)
shit together.

Megan Rafuse (10:00.61)
But really, you know, I struggled with a lot of those same thoughts. And so, you know, if you ever think, is my therapist human? I just want to normalize totally and your therapist is like so excited that you're sharing. Your therapist is like super invested in the journey. I saw a meme this weekend that said maybe I should start writing my therapist flash cards of all the guys that I'm dating because they're all like...

Kelly Yefet (10:05.275)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (10:27.262)
white men born in the 80s with multiple versions of the same name. And I was like, no, there's no need for flashcards. We are just as invested. And so, you know, really, I think mental health obviously is a big topic. There's a lot of shame and stigma still for many diagnosis. And then there's other diagnoses that the stigma is starting to wane and we're talking about it more. And it's, you know, showing up on TikTok. And so

Kelly Yefet (10:32.814)
That's funny.

Kelly Yefet (10:36.876)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (10:55.99)
when we think of the mental health industry, it's also important we think of it as a spectrum. And so, on one end, there's real significant mental illness, on the other end, there's people who choose to work on their mental wellness. And for most of us, we may fluctuate along that spectrum throughout our entire life. And I think the more that we're able to work on our mental wellness when we can, it'll help mitigate our mental illness.

but also knowing that there are really great supports if you're struggling with mental illness. I think that's pretty awesome because when I started my career, we've noticed, you know, I have noticed that we've come a long way and that I'm proud of that.

Kelly Yefet (11:39.237)
That's such an interesting differentiator of the mental illness and mental wellness because I think going to a therapist, it's also almost like dating. Like you don't just find one person and they're the perfect fit and you stick with them. Like it's a lot of effort at the beginning to find someone that you connect with and even maybe for that time in your life. And then you get all the tools and resources from that therapist and it's time to move on.

But it's also really interesting about the wellness and illness because sometimes you're not going through a huge crisis but it's just like I just need help figuring out how to manage my day or how like My husband eating beside me makes me want to punch him in the face And maybe that's a tool I need a tool to like work on that type of thing, right? And it can be so minor about what okay then you know, why is that bothering me or why is that an issue?

Megan Rafuse (12:28.342)
Yes, yes!

Kelly Yefet (12:35.845)
hopefully that's not on the mental illness side, it's just like there's something probably bigger going on that I should work through. And I've never heard the differentiator there because sometimes you feel silly, like I don't wanna waste a therapist's time when they can be dealing with someone who actually is going through some big stuff, but you're right, there's kind of a scale of what they can support you on, but I've never heard it positioned like that.

Megan Rafuse (13:01.322)
love how you describe that in terms of, you know, we say it to you, therapy is like dating, you're going to go through a few duds before you find the best fit. And the best fit for you may change, you know, throughout your lifespan, depending on what you're dealing with. And so an easy way to think about the mental health and wellness continuum is really thinking about it as like a graph. And so, you know, we have mental illness on one line, we have mental wellness on the other.

We both will live with mental illness and we both have a responsibility to manage our mental wellness. And so if you think about it as a continuum, I might be spending a lot of time right now investing in my self care. I might have like amazing boundaries. I might have like, you know, recognize that my husband's chewing was driving me bonkers and I was like, I need to go to therapy for this because there's something else going on.

So there is my mental wellness spectrum. And I've done a lot of work in the mental illness spectrum. Here's psychosis, here's really tough mental illness, here's a little bit of generalized anxiety. I live with ADHD. So I'm going to operate on the mental illness spectrum and the mental wellness spectrum. And I need to make sure that I'm taking care of my mental wellness because it helps to mitigate.

Kelly Yefet (14:00.635)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (14:24.682)
the impacts of my ADHD. So I know when I have a routine and I'm boundaried and when I don't overcommit and I watch my timeline as a little, I know that will help me to perform better. So in mental health, there's so many buzzwords and we all say, well, is it mental illness? Do we call it mental wellness? What do we call it? And so use that spectrum, like quadrant analogy just to be like, okay.

Kelly Yefet (14:44.059)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (14:53.698)
How do I take care of myself now to help mitigate some of the struggles I may be facing in the future? And I've worked with hundreds of clients, mostly young professionals. My team, we have 125 therapists now on our team all across Canada. They work with anywhere from high school students all the way to seniors. And I will tell you that we often hear, well, I'm not that bad. I don't know if I'm ready to come to therapy. And I promise you,

Kelly Yefet (14:54.609)
I really like that.

Kelly Yefet (15:12.015)
Wow.

Megan Rafuse (15:23.202)
There is no like specific threshold that the therapist is gonna be like, no, you are not meeting that minimum threshold. Therapy is a good thing anytime. It's an objective place to just show up as you are, to let yourself be as you are, and to get a little bit of extra support or get a tool that you might need in your tool belt, or be able to like vent about your boss who...

Kelly Yefet (15:29.809)
Yeah.

Kelly Yefet (15:34.777)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (15:50.422)
you know, may be really difficult right now and help you find ways to move through it. And so, you know, I think when we think about that continuum, the same goes for the issues that you deal with in therapy. Some people might, you know, be really struggling with bipolar or OCD, whereas others might say, you know, I just need to figure out how to manage my mornings without feeling overwhelmed. And all of that is totally fine and great reasons to seek support

Kelly Yefet (16:13.454)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (16:20.214)
We don't want issues to fester. And we don't want our self-talk and our mean roommate in our head to be wandering around with us every day telling us we're not good enough and impairing our functioning and telling us don't apply for that promotion or don't start your own business. We wanna work through that now so that you can feel really good just living your life and going out and doing what you need to do.

Kelly Yefet (16:43.045)
So we talked a little bit about dating, like finding the right therapist is almost like dating. And of course with Shift collab, there's a huge pool of support that one can find on there. How, I wanna hear a little bit about Shift collab, how it works, but also how someone can use it to find the right therapist for them or how that relationship works with the platform.

Megan Rafuse (17:07.518)
Yeah, so I founded ShiftCollab about seven years ago now. And admittedly, I had a clinic in Yorkville and Toronto. I hired 12 therapists. I had no idea how to run a business. I was a therapist. I had never taken a business course in my life. And so I remember in university when I was studying my first degree, psychology.

And I said, well, when is the business class coming? Like, we're expected to be entrepreneurs. We run clinics. And they're like, oh, sorry, no, that's not a thing. And so admittedly, when I left a full-time job, cut the golden handcuffs, I had lots of feedback from my family about, like, how could you leave a government job with pension and benefits to now go to your own thing? I left that job within three months. I had a full caseload.

and was really, really busy as a private practice therapist. And I thought, okay, what's the next step? Everyone was talking about scaling. How do you grow your business? I thought, okay, well, this office just came up for rent, two floors above where I was renting space. And I said, I'm gonna renovate it. I'm gonna hire at least people. And that really was how Shift Collab was born, was a 20-something single woman who was like,

Why not? I can do it. And thankfully, now I'm grateful I took the risk. Hindsight, I'm like, oh, that was a really difficult time in my life. And so I always like to tell people that entrepreneurship, what you tend to see from the outside is like a snapshot of a certain part of my life where right now I say, yeah, we have an incredible team of 125 therapists all across the country.

However, growing that took effort, time, energy, money, and there was like really, really good times and really, really tough times. And so I always normalize that when I talk about shift clock because you're seeing a snapshot right now and one that I'm actually really proud of. So 125 therapists, all registered social workers or registered psychotherapists all across Canada.

Megan Rafuse (19:30.37)
And we have made accessing a therapist really simple. My goal has always been, how do we make therapy accessible? How do we ensure we have quality clinicians who are clinically excellent, but also relatable? They're not the blank slate therapist where you're like, who are they? Are they human? You know, our therapists value being human, I think, you know, a little bit of showing who you are also.

Kelly Yefet (19:51.867)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (19:57.666)
contributes to strong rapport and a therapeutic relationship. And our therapy team is supported by a team of 17 staff members. And so as part of those staff members, we have people who do care coordination. So we have a quick and easy matching questionnaire online. Honestly, you can fill it out within three to five minutes. We'll ask you questions about yourself, why therapy now, what you're looking for, what province you're in.

you know, do you prefer a therapist who's older or younger? And then you'll be sent three matches. Our care team then will follow up because obviously, you know, looking at profiles online, you're like, well, which one is the best for me? And our care team will follow up with you and say, do you want to have a chat? Do you have any questions about who we're suggesting for you? Is there anything in particular that you're looking for? And so our goal has always been

whether it was when we had 12 clinicians or 125, has always been to say therapy is like dating. Obviously, you can go online and be in, in many therapy directories being like, how do I even know who's right for me? What is this person even like? And so we really work to streamline that. You can go on our website, look at videos of the therapist. You can read blogs, they have badges.

on their profile so you can see what they're interested in. I know we have some Swifty badges and nature lovers, but it's really important that you find the right therapist and we will help you do that. So you're not alone in that. We will help match you. We'll take the guessing out of it because we know that strong therapeutic rapport, which is the relationship that you have with your clinician, is the number one outcome for...

Kelly Yefet (21:22.011)
Wow.

Megan Rafuse (21:46.742)
you to feel better for getting quality results in therapy. And so, you know, I know a lot of therapists online, you tend to see like they lead with all these acronyms of all their schooling and all the courses they take. And it's like, what does that even mean? How can that help me? And so we really wanted to make it personable. And when you visit our website or reach out to our care team, we'll always be like, here's what they're really like. And tell me a bit about what you need. We have a free 15 minute.

Kelly Yefet (22:02.202)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (22:15.126)
consultation you can have with a therapist where you get a sense of what they're like. Again, it's kind of like one of those mini speed dates where you're like, is this person right? Will they get me? And that's the chance for you to get to know them and decide, you know, is this the therapist I'd want to work with? And on our team, sometimes people do two of those or three, but overall, it gives you the option to really understand who that therapist is before you commit to working with them.

Kelly Yefet (22:19.077)
Yeah.

Kelly Yefet (22:43.609)
It's such an important piece and I love that it's embedded right into the process because typically that first conversation is draining and emotional and you don't want to do it three times over where you're telling someone your whole life story and then you're like, actually, I don't like you. So it's really amazing that that's embedded into the platform. How do, because I know it's, I forget what the terminology that you use, but I think

Megan Rafuse (23:13.109)
Mm-hmm.

Kelly Yefet (23:13.897)
It sounds like this method, it's incredible for the user. It's also a big lift on the clinician side of it. So how do you vet the right social worker or psychotherapist that you have on the platform that they're going to invest in setting it up, putting their videos, dedicating themselves to Shift Cloud because it's the other side, you're building a marketplace. So how does that work?

Megan Rafuse (23:38.43)
Right, I love this question because this is where we really differ. So we are less of an Uber platform. I like to say we're not Uber. We actually handpick all of our therapists. We hire less than 5% of therapists that apply to work with us. We really invest in their development. They can attend professional development. They...

have access to supervision, peer supervision. We're all connected regularly and it's less of a network. So it's not like, oh, we're putting our feelers out to Mary in Saskatchewan. It's like, no, we know Mary really well and we talk to Mary every day. And so intentionally we've stayed at this size because it allows us brain control. I really care that if you get a shift club therapist, you are getting a therapist who...

Kelly Yefet (24:20.122)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (24:33.91)
aligns with our brand, aligns with our ideal clientele, who really identifies with wanting to be part of a group practice. They're not the lone wolf therapists. And we have a whole team. So we have a marketing team, we have a therapist experience lead, and these people actually know our therapists really well. We meet with them, we help them create content. We wanna make sure that they're showcasing what they do in their best light, and that our clients benefit from that. So.

We really differ from the network. And that's, as you know, the CEO now, that is so important to me because I have been a therapist on big networks where I felt like a number and not a name. I, you know, have been referred to therapists in big networks where they barely showed up on video. One of them was like knitting and session, like just like a lot of things that I was like, oh, okay. And so part of being

Kelly Yefet (25:29.455)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (25:32.17)
you know, clinician focused and having our company owned by a clinician is that I really respect the hard work that our clinicians put into supporting our clients. I respect the client need to have a quality therapist who aligns with the company that they're seeking therapy through. And so I will always, always ensure that our therapists are the best therapists. They're, you know, they're premium therapists in the market. We pay them well.

Kelly Yefet (25:41.574)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (26:01.61)
we ensure that they get the support they need because that is ultimately the way that therapists thrive and the way that our clients get the best care. I really care about impact, and I don't believe that impact is always tied to just numbers and stats around the biggest network. I think it's tied to how strong are the clinicians in your group practice and how are they able to offer the best care to our clients. And so,

That's what's different about ShiftCollab. And I know our clients feel it. We get that feedback from clients, thankfully. And we even have a fit guarantee. So if you do a meet and greet, you see a therapist, and you're like, you know what? After the first session, I just like, I still don't know. We'll match you with another clinician on our team. It'll be a free session. We'll make sure that you feel supported in that because that really, I think, tells our clients that

Kelly Yefet (26:30.042)
Yeah.

Kelly Yefet (26:54.279)
Wow.

Megan Rafuse (26:59.478)
We so believe in our therapists. We also so believe that clients know what they need and when they need it. And that's my responsibility to say, therapeutic rapport will drive your outcome, so let's find you the best fit.

Kelly Yefet (27:12.465)
So interesting. Do clinicians, is there ever the other way where a clinician's like, I don't know that I'm the right fit for this person?

Megan Rafuse (27:21.011)
Yes, I love that. I love that you're like, okay, let's be honest here. Yes. And so, you know, as a clinician, we have ethical duties to ensure that we're able to provide the best care for our clients. And if I don't feel like I'm the best fit for you, it's my responsibility to tell you that. I may say, you know what? I actually don't have the training that I think would be most appropriate, the most appropriate modality to support you in this. But my colleague does.

Kelly Yefet (27:25.911)
So...

Kelly Yefet (27:32.602)
Okay.

Megan Rafuse (27:49.618)
I'm gonna make a warm transfer and I think you would be so well served by that colleague. Same goes for, you know, I've had clients over the years, I've worked with them, you know, maybe off and on for a year. They come to me with a different issue or they want to see a couples therapist, I'll refer out, we'll still stay connected. They might come back for maintenance, etc. And so we really respect that a client's journey is fluid.

We don't take anything personally if the client is like, eh, you're not the right fit right now. And we will be upfront with the client to be like, here's where I think you can get the best care. Sometimes clients will be like, no, I still feel good working with you. I wanna stay with you and we'll be like, okay, great. I will do the work to learn what I need to learn to support you. And I have an ethical duty to uphold that I provide you good care. And so it does happen. And we really respect clinicians who

do that. I never want a client stuck with a therapist when they're like, do they even know what they're doing or like, can they support me? You know? Yeah. That's why it's important all of our therapists know each other so they can cross-refer clients when needed.

Kelly Yefet (28:47.546)
Right, right.

Kelly Yefet (28:58.54)
Right. Are you still practicing? No, okay. I didn't think so.

Megan Rafuse (29:01.626)
No. So yeah, so you know, like most entrepreneurs, I think you do. You work in the business and you work on the business. And for many years, I was practicing as a therapist, I had a full caseload, and I was running the business at all of the other hours in the week. And I realized that it just isn't sustainable. It wasn't sustainable for me. I brought down my caseload, still wasn't

In 2021, I had a mat leave, and that was the time that I made the full transition from therapist meets CEO to CEO. And since then, I've been full-time CEO. And admittedly, I was really nervous. I was like, am I going to even like this? I love, love working with clients. However, this role lets me have the impact that I want to have.

Kelly Yefet (29:41.363)
CEO.

Kelly Yefet (29:48.092)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (29:59.614)
It allows me to still ensure our team offers the best therapy they can, and it frees me up to do the best work I can. And so right now I'm in the right role for me, but it's been a big learning curve, admittedly.

Kelly Yefet (30:13.457)
sure, I'm sure. And by being the CEO also, it allows you to empower other people in growing this business to be able to support and make a difference for Canadians, which is amazing. How have you found that transition? Do you miss sometimes being in psychotherapy? How is the role and I guess how would you describe your role as CEO and co-founder of Shift Club?

Megan Rafuse (30:42.098)
Yeah, so admittedly, I think a lot of new CEOs go through a tough time. And so initially, I really struggled with this idea of who a CEO is versus who I am. And I used to just compare myself and think, well, the CEO is like this strong man. It was always like a man in my mind, which I have no idea why, because I really value women in business and read a lot about.

women CEOs, but it was always this man and he looked at graphs and charts and he knew what he was doing and he could direct the team and be very firm in boundary. And I was like, here I am. I'm like, I'm just learning how to read these numbers. I'm just learning about what it even means to be a visionary CEO, what it means to drive the company in certain ways, what team I need under me to set myself up and the company up for responsible success.

And I did a lot of work around that. I have a business coach who I worked with regularly. I'm a therapist and I really did a lot of work around who am I as a CEO. Because really that's all that matters in my business is how I'm showing up authentically, how I show up to support and lead my team, how I drive culture and how I make sure that I flag, you know, for icebergs I see coming on the horizon. And so for me,

that's what being a CEO looks like. I am blessed to have an incredible team that really works hard day in and day out to support our mission, vision, and values. And it's been a learning curve. If you could look like next to me, you'd see all these books I have about like, how to be a CEO and what is EOS and leaders eat last. And honestly, a lot of making this transition into this role has been, how do I show up?

with integrity for myself and the team? How do I know what's true in terms of my leadership style and what are areas I need to develop? We all have learning curves. We all have areas we have to develop. And I'm grateful that my team has given me the grace to learn. And I'm grateful that, you know, I think I'm more open than five years ago even to say, you know, I'm learning. I don't know what I don't know.

Megan Rafuse (33:09.354)
our business, thankfully, the data and stats and outcomes have shown that we're on the right path. And so that actually is a nice reinforcement for me. I do miss being a therapist. I have moments where I'm like, oh, I miss that one-on-one connection. I miss learning from my clients about what they need from the business. I miss using that...

Kelly Yefet (33:35.546)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (33:37.09)
skill set. Being a therapist, you get to use your mental map and think through how things are connected. I really just thought about how do I carry that into business? How do I show up authentically? It's actually felt really nice now, but it has been hard. I am someone who struggled with perfectionism and compare and despair, and I tend to look at what other people are doing and think, oh my gosh, I'm not that kind of CEO. How do I be like that?

Kelly Yefet (33:43.608)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (34:06.09)
And now I just kind of embrace when I feel that way, what is it that I feel like I'm not doing? Is it something that actually I need to be doing? Is it something I can delegate or does it even align with my values? And so that's how I've started to think through what it means for me to be the kind of CEO I wanna be.

Kelly Yefet (34:25.837)
Amazing and such a huge shift. So very impressive that you took that on. I know that you're also a co founder. So I'm curious about that journey of bringing on a co founder and how it has been to have a partner, you know, on both sides through the through the process.

Megan Rafuse (34:44.29)
Totally. So in the early days, it was in 2016, 17, I met who is my now co-founder and we always laugh because we met on Tinder. He was living on Toronto Island in the middle of winter writing a book, which never was published. And I was...

I just turned 30, I was single, I just got a puppy, and I was on the other side of the Toronto Island at Bathurst and Lakeshore. And so I think the proximity helped. But he and I, you know, we dated for a bit, he ghosted me. I really, really didn't like this guy. Yeah, exactly. I remember being like, I had to quit my full-time job party.

Kelly Yefet (35:30.849)
Classic.

Megan Rafuse (35:36.822)
And I was like, this guy's such a jerk. Like he met all my friends and family who came to the party and then he was like, oh, bye, sorry. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. And so a few months past, I was like, I still don't like that guy, but we had talked about doing a podcast together and the idea just kept percolating and I was like, but it was such a good idea. We're really on the same wavelength. We really both care about mental health. He was also running a mental health speaking agency and I was growing the clinic. And so,

Kelly Yefet (35:42.525)
Come on!

Kelly Yefet (36:06.269)
Wow.

Megan Rafuse (36:06.902)
At the time, I was like, you know, here I am in one-to-one therapy sessions with clients who are saying, you know, I wish my workplace would adopt more of this. I wish we could talk more about this on my campus or in my company. And he was doing keynotes all over Canada and the US. And he was like, you know, the audience comes up to me afterwards and was like, well, what's next? Like, where do I get support? How do I do it? And so long story short.

We did do a podcast together. We were best friends for two years. And finally, we were like, I think we really can merge companies. And that was the birth of Shift Club. And so I think what was really nice is that we both had our own company. So I built Shift, it was called Shift at the time, but I built Shift into what it was. I was really struggling with getting therapists busy.

Kelly Yefet (36:53.66)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (37:02.17)
I was like, how do I market? What does that even mean? He was supporting speakers as our agent and he was like, I'm the busiest one. How do I get these other speakers busy? And we really, over time, started to learn how to work together as friends. The podcast was great. It was a good experience in how we could work together. And then fast forward a few years, we started dating again. Now we're married. We're parents of a toddler.

Kelly Yefet (37:03.869)
Mm-hmm.

Kelly Yefet (37:28.089)
and have a little baby, yeah.

Megan Rafuse (37:29.562)
Yeah, I'm currently expecting our second kid. And, you know, I always say it feels like we did our life milestones backwards. Like, you know, we started a business together and then we bought a house and then we had a baby and then we got married. But what has really helped us in being co-founders is understanding that we each have separate zones of genius. And it did take a while.

for us to figure out as co-founders, like all co-founder relationships, everybody has a different zone of genius and you can't have two co-founders in the same lane. So we did go through that like power struggle, we did go through, should we be co-CEOs? What does that look like? But it didn't make sense. So, you know, we're both ADHDers, which makes life really fun. And it means I'm more visionary.

So I tend to be, you know, the seat, I'm the typical CEO. I have big ideas, I have big plans, I, you know, can see a future ahead. He thrives in marketing and growth. He's so strong at big relationships and he's moving into a COO role as well. And so that really has been so great. He loves numbers, he loves business, he's driven.

And so it really, you know, it took us a while to figure out how to best work with each other. We really had to think through what we each value. And you know, now looking back, people always say, how do you work with your husband? And I'm like, well, you know, it takes practice. And sometimes I'm like, okay, do you want my feedback as your wife or as your business partner? Because sometimes they have two different voices. But honestly, I can't imagine not doing this.

Kelly Yefet (39:19.779)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (39:20.138)
with him. I can't imagine, you know, we're boundary, like we're not sitting at dinner every night talking about work, but if work comes up, we'll talk about it. And, you know, I've spent more time with him than I've ever spent with anybody else. And that has really helped us to figure out how do we be the kind of business owners we want to be and run a business that feels good for us.

Kelly Yefet (39:34.257)
Right.

Kelly Yefet (39:44.237)
It is funny about the milestones being backwards, but when you have a partner in business, your communication has to be spectacular, whereas in a relationship, you want the best communication, but it doesn't necessarily happen that way, but if you want a business to grow and you actually have metrics and you're working towards things, you figure out how to communicate really well. So it's almost like a blessing because you guys learned how to have like...

ultimate communication and work as partners and then introduce this other component to it, which is really fascinating and congrats on the little and one to be. That's really exciting.

Megan Rafuse (40:19.524)
Thank you. Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny in the early days when we were dating, we'd be in big partnership meetings and people would have no idea that we were together. And we're like, do we tell them, do we not? But it has made parenting really great.

because we're both really able to be like, okay, here's your role, here's my role, or here's, you know, not even role gendered specific, I often say, you know, he's probably, he carries so much emotional labor, he is probably more of the default parent than I am, but we're able to communicate like, like I don't thrive early in the morning, he does. He does mornings with our son, he loves it, that's his time, he lets me have some more, have my mornings, then I thrive throughout the day and do some evenings, like we just have been able to.

Kelly Yefet (40:45.819)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (41:06.754)
communicate in ways that had we not been dealing with big business challenges over the year, I don't know if the first few years of parenting would have been so easy. And so I'm always grateful for that. And it always takes work. All relationship communication takes work, whether it's co-founder, colleague, or friend, or partner. And so, you know, it takes work, but it's the most rewarding kind of work.

Kelly Yefet (41:35.069)
Do you think, and I don't know if you get this question all the time, but do you think having training as in the mental health space as a psychotherapist that it like helps you in those situations? Cause you're like, I don't know, frame working yourself.

Megan Rafuse (41:54.571)
No, definitely not. I'm still human. I still have my own therapist because I can't therapy myself. My husband and I joke, he has a post-grad in war negotiation. He never followed through on that. A therapist and a war negotiator together, I think, it can be interesting.

Kelly Yefet (41:56.665)
You're still human.

Kelly Yefet (42:02.395)
Okay.

Kelly Yefet (42:14.769)
That's a really funny combination.

Megan Rafuse (42:16.442)
Yeah, yeah, I'm like, okay, but he does say I have the memory of a therapist, which really messes them up sometimes. But no, it's, you know, we're human too. And so sure, I have frameworks. Sure, you know, I probably spend more time than others listening to self-development or podcasts. And I'm always surprised, you know, he's working as the COO of a mental health company with 125 therapists. And our staff team...

is all women except for him. And so sometimes he's like, oh, well, what's the story you're telling yourself about that? And I'm like, are you becoming a therapist in your spare time? Like, who have you talked to? But he really, really has done a lot of work. He really, really is mindful of, you know, his positioning as a white man in a company that's 91% women. And I think it's been really cool to see his growth.

And I hope he would say the same about me, but no, I can never theropize him, it never works. And he catches me on it and he's like, I know what you're doing. And so, you know, we learn skills together. Ha ha.

Kelly Yefet (43:24.651)
That's funny. That was going to be my next question is if you try to sneak it in without him knowing that you answered before I got there. That's so funny.

Megan Rafuse (43:32.334)
Oh my gosh, always, and I'm always caught. Yeah, exactly.

Kelly Yefet (43:37.693)
At least you try. Okay, I have a few last questions for you. So I think this question is particularly interesting for you because you did a career shift and became an entrepreneur after your professional studies. So were there myths that you were told as a founder or as you were becoming a founder that now reflecting back, you wanted to spell that and tell future or aspiring entrepreneurs that like that.

Megan Rafuse (43:42.167)
Mmm.

Kelly Yefet (44:06.649)
XYZ is not true.

Megan Rafuse (44:09.238)
Oh, yes. I entered into this journey with thinking all the myths were real. So I think I have three when I think of the top three. One is this idea that founders are self-made. No one is self-made. Everyone is community-made. And my friend Zach lives in Sarubo Palsy. He says this quote. I believe in it in a TED Talk.

He even said to me, he said, no, my female co-founder made that quote. I'm going to properly attribute it to her. But you know what? No one is self-made. Everyone is community made. And I think had I realized that earlier, I would have been more open and able to just raise my hands and ask for help faster. And so if you are struggling and you feel like, well, everyone else is self-made and has it all together, I want to normalize.

We don't, you know? I have a really strong network. I turned to someone in my network this morning and I said, how did you deal with this? You know, I'm trying to build something new. I'm not sure about how to structure it in this way. Like, can you help me? And the entrepreneur community is full of incredible people who either have been where you are or are learning through the same challenges and who just wanna have each other's backs. Like...

You know, and so no one is self-made. Everyone's community-made. No one has their shit together. We may look at, you know, Instagram's a highlight reel. You know, winning, I won a cool award this year. It's also a highlight reel. You know, it's been seven years I haven't won anything. I feel like kind of invisible. I watch other people win things. I'm like, how? And then I was like, oh, you get a really good publicist and they support you. I didn't know that. I thought I must not be worthy.

And I think if you're feeling that, I want you to challenge that and say, ask people, how did you do that? Where did you get this connection? How are you learning and growing and finding community? Because people will be honest and tell you, and those are the people you want in your corner. If you ever feel like you're competing against people, they're not the right people in your corner. You want the people who say your name in the room full of opportunities, because that's where your quality relationships will come from. And we all...

Kelly Yefet (45:59.473)
Right.

Megan Rafuse (46:28.862)
need that. And third, I would say is profit and revenue are two different things. And oftentimes I'd see people talking about like, my business made this much, like I'm like an eight figure entrepreneur, whatever. And then, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not there. How do we get there? And, you know, revenue is one thing. But if you're blowing all your revenue on your Google ads,

You know, you might still be living paycheck to paycheck or not even able to pay yourself. So I wanna normalize that when we hear numbers, remember that people can determine how they share their own numbers. And it doesn't mean you're not doing well, it means that numbers are being presented in a certain way. And so I always say like, take the mask off, find your community, find the people who have your back. There's a lot of people who want support and wanna support others.

And that's really, I wish I knew that in year one. It's taken me a long time to learn it, but I feel so much less alone. And so much more able to go out and take risks, because I can ask for help if I'm struggling or don't know what I'm doing.

Kelly Yefet (47:28.133)
Yeah.

Kelly Yefet (47:43.197)
amazing three myths, like very deep. The number one is also interesting. I think it's also, it depends on where you are in your journey. Like you, maybe those numbers are real, but, and you know, the context is, and the profit margin is great, but you're gonna be 10X at in three years. You just have to, you know, continue the work and give yourself a bit of time, but yeah. Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (47:44.814)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Megan Rafuse (48:09.398)
Yes, and be kind to yourself. Like, you know, ShiftLab is fully bootstrapped. We, you know, I always say we want to hit 10 million in revenue, that doesn't mean we're hitting 10 million in profit not even close. And so, you know, I don't have external investment and I have friends who run businesses who do have external investment and I'm learning about both and thinking through, you know, what it means to be bootstrapped.

What that means is, you know, I also hold responsibility for making sure every single month I deliver on payroll, every single month I make sure that we have enough money or, you know, I have access to lines of credit, et cetera, to make sure the business is sustainable. And so, you know, my biggest responsibility that I never really thought of when I was growing Shift Club was like, I need to create intentionally a business that...

is responsible for other people's livelihoods. And I need to do that in a way that probably is more conservative than like a lot of these fast growing scale ups you hear about because I don't have external money because the money still comes. Exactly. Totally. And so I think that's important to note. Like, it's not always like, oh, we have all this money. It is like, okay, what are we gonna prioritize?

Kelly Yefet (49:15.257)
You have to be a lot more thoughtful with each dollar because there's not a pool of it sitting. Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (49:30.574)
And sometimes that ebbs and flows, but it's something that, you know, I think a lot of business owners really spend a lot of time thinking through that we don't always talk about.

Kelly Yefet (49:41.305)
Yeah, very fair. My last question for you, as you know, the podcast is called How I Became and we really went through your journey and started from, you know, a young age to today. If you were to name your episode how you became, what would you name your episode given where you are today?

Megan Rafuse (50:05.198)
This question is so good. Admittedly, I looked at what other episodes were named. I was like, yes. And honestly, I honestly think the most straightforward one is how I became a therapist turned CEO. I think it outlines that we're allowed to pivot and sometimes we need to pivot in our career.

Kelly Yefet (50:12.494)
You can get creative with it for sure.

Megan Rafuse (50:31.59)
To be the mom I want to be a CEO right now is the best role for me and How I became a therapist turned CEO Really encompasses my biggest learning curve in the past 10 years and also encompasses The community of people that have helped me get to this place Over the years and that's anywhere from clients, you know

My clients are incredible people. They taught me so much about myself, so much about resilience, so much about what it means to be human in this world. And I've carried a lot of their journeys with me. It allows me to think through my team and how they support me, fellow entrepreneurs, my family, all of the things. And so I think it's a quick tagline, like how I became a therapist turned CEO, but for me.

Kelly Yefet (51:26.981)
Yeah.

Megan Rafuse (51:27.966)
It showcases the full journey and that there's still lots of learning left. And I'm okay with that.

Kelly Yefet (51:35.289)
Yeah, absolutely. It's a really solid name. I think it is perfect for this episode. Thank you so much for coming on today. I know I'm going to shift collab after this and signing up. So I appreciate it. I'm getting myself back into therapy. Sad you're not on the list, but I'll get over it. And yeah, thank you so much, Megan. This was such a fun episode.

Megan Rafuse (51:52.818)
Hehehe

Megan Rafuse (51:58.242)
Thank you so much for having me.